And I’m far from happy about it. In fact I’m pissed off.
- Note to my readers: Today’s post will likely be of little interest to many (most?) of my blog followers but I’m desperate for advice from those in the know so for this one day we’ll all just have to grin and bear it. Even one person who can point me in the right direction, if there is such a person and such a direction, would be deeply appreciated.
I’ve never owned a DSLR camera that wasn’t a Canon and that includes five of them. Each one has admirably served my needs and my skill level at the time and paired with Canon’s truly exemplary pro-level “L” telephoto lenses (of which I’ve owned four and currently own two) this bird photographer couldn’t have been happier.
But that was in the past.
Canon 7D Mark II – Image from Creative Commons
I love the Canon 7D Mark II so much I own two of them, one of which is married to my 500 f/4 II lens and the other to my 100-400 II lens. But the 7D II is getting long in the tooth – it’s been out since 2014, both of mine have been used heavily and have high shutter counts and I’m aching to take advantage of recent and significant advances in autofocus technologies so I’m in the market for a new camera.
Ha, good luck with that!
Canon has recently announced that they’re abandoning the 7D line so there’s no 7D III or any other “pro-crop body” on the Canon horizon. Instead they’re focusing on their new mirrorless cameras which I refuse to consider at this point because they would require me to use an adapter, in addition to my trusty 1.4 teleconverter, between my camera and 500mm lens. That’s just too many mechanical and electrical connections for me to feel comfortable with.
My minimum requirements for a new camera body include:
- pro-level DSLR (meaning sturdy, well-built and not mirrorless)
- new and advanced autofocus technology so it must be a fairly recent release (or a release planned for the near future)
- frame rate (burst rate) of 10 frames/second as an absolute minimum
- minimum pixel count (file size) of 20 MP in cropped frame or about 30 MP in full frame
- my preference would be cropped-frame (APS-C) but I’d even be willing to go the extra expense of full frame and sacrifice the additional reach of cropped-frame if (and that’s a big “if”) the pixel count of full-frame was at least 30 MP. If I’m going to lose the extra reach provided by cropped-frame I’d require the larger file size in full-frame so I could crop more and still have acceptable image quality.
I’m asking for advice because I’m not a “gearhead” so I don’t follow recent camera developments closely. I’ve researched the Canon line and as far as I can tell I’m just SOL unless I’m missing something. Even though it would set me back about $6000 I even considered the recently announced full-frame Canon IDX Mark III due to be released in early 2020 but that camera is predicted to have a pixel count of only about 20 MP (the same as my cropped-frame 7D II’s) which is insufficient for this bird photographer requiring a larger file size to support moderate cropping and still maintaining acceptable image quality.
Any thoughts from Canon gearheads out there? Am I missing something? Is there another Canon model the rumor mill is predicting to be announced soon that I’m unaware of? Are my only options to stick with the 7D Mark II for the foreseeable future or switch camera brands? For me, switching would be hugely inconvenient, expensive and at my age possibly impractical. I have friends who have switched brands and the process is… traumatic.
But if I have to I guess I have to.
Ron
Note:
As if I haven’t bored my readers to distraction already I’m including the following letter I sent to Canon a few days ago. I haven’t yet heard back from them (I really don’t expect to) but it was a bit of a catharsis for me to let them know how I feel about their decision to abandon the 7D line and then continue their shortsightedness by making the pixel count of the new 1DX Mark III only 20 MP.
“This is a letter I hoped I’d never have to write.
I’m a semi-pro bird photographer and I’ve been a prolific customer of Canon DSLR cameras and lenses for over 12 years now. The Canon products I’ve purchased in that time include an XTi, a 40D, a 7D, two 7D Mark II’s, a 1.4 teleconverter, a 2.0 teleconverter, two 100-400 lenses (versions 1 and 2), two 500 f/4 lenses (versions 1 and 2) and countless Canon auxiliary products including membership in Canon Professional Services (CPS – Gold Level). That adds up to a huge chunk of change, at least for me. Check your records to confirm.
What in the world was Canon thinking when they abandoned the 7D line and didn’t offer us any viable alternatives?
Many thousands of bird photographers like myself need a fast frame rate, top of the line AF capabilities and a decent pixel count (file size) in a pro level DSLR so we can crop significantly and still have acceptable image quality. Canon now has no fairly recently released DSLR camera that will meet those needs, currently or announced, and the Canon 7D Mark II was released long ago, way back in 2014, so that camera is already long in the tooth (I was the first customer to purchase a Mark II from my camera dealer and I now own two of them).
Countless bird and wildlife photographers like myself need a professional, cropped sensor DSLR that meets the above requirements but given Canon’s lack of choice in that regard I’m even willing to go for a very expensive full frame camera and give up the additional reach of a cropped sensor if I absolutely have to. The only Canon camera that will then meet most (“most” is the key word here) of my requirements is the 1DX Mark III due to be released in a couple of months. That camera’s AF capabilities and burst rate more than meet my requirements but word is that it’s file size will only be about 20 MP and at full frame that just isn’t going to cut it for many if not most bird photographers because we often need to crop more than sports photographers and others do.
And no I won’t be going mirrorless, at least not anytime soon, for a variety of reasons – among them the fact that I really don’t want to be using an adapter in addition to my teleconverter between a camera and my 500 f/4 lens.
My point after all this? Please, consider making the file size of the new IDX Mark III at least 30MP so we have some wiggle room in the cropping department!
If you don’t I’m screwed and so are thousands of other bird photographers like me.
In that unfortunate case, thanks a lot, Canon! It won’t be easy, cheap or convenient but I’ll be forced to look at another camera brand.
Ron Dudley”
Hi Ron,
Well you knew this would happen. I’m a Nikon shooter. I have two main bodies, the D 500 and the D 850. For birds and dragonflies, the D 500 is the best tool I’ve ever used. The focus acquisition is very fast and flexibility is wonderful. I have my back button set to group AF and the front DOF preview set to single point AF. Typically, I use the group AF for flight and the single point for perched birds and dragonflies. The body is economical but very capable, both of which are important to me. Some shooters (e.g. Steve Perry) have switched to the D 850 for their primary bird in flight/action body but not me. I prefer the slightly higher frame rate and more coverage of the frame with AF points offered by the D 500. I also prefer the smaller file size especially given the number of frames you can click off at 10fps. I do not know if Nikon will produce another D 500 iteration but if they don’t, I could keep shooting it for a long time and feel like I was getting all the things I need in a camera for bird/action photography. Of course the Nikon stable of lenses is very robust and of high quality. I also like the fact that if you can’t afford their latest and greatest you can go back a generation or two on the used market and get very serviceable lenses. My D 500 is married to my 200-500 lens. I had a 500mm f4 first generation AF-s (non VR) but I sold it because it was spending all the time in its case and I was constantly taking the 200-500 into the field. I’m considering the 500 f5.6 PF but need to get a paying gig or two before taking that plunge.
I am in the exact same position you are with almost the same gear; 7D MK II, 800mm 5.6, 5D MK IV and 100-400 II. This set up serves me well, I understand it and can make adjustments on the fly almost without looking at the camera thanks to the customization capabilities on these bodies. MIL is here but I’ve no interest as of yet. If the 1DX MK III is pushing the 30 MP mark, which I kind of doubt? I’d swallow hard and probably write that check.
Ron, this is, surely, an interesting thread. You and I have followed similar camera decisions for years. I was absolutely the biggest fanboy of the 7Dmkii when I picked up the second one from our mutual dealer. I loved and shot it for years. I then had an opportunity to pick up a lightly used 1dXmkii for a killer deal. That was an eye opener. The 1DXmkii exceeded the capabilities of the 7Dmkii in every category, with the exception of weight. One series cameras are a handful. The initial focus acquisition and the focus tracking are not even comparable. As you know, our long lens and extender usage is similar. The high ISO capabilities resulting in the ability to shoot lower light with less noise is amazing for the 1DXmkii. If you are concerned about the ability to crop, I think the ability to crop the 1DXmkii vs the 7Dmkii also ends up favoring the 1DXmkii.
Within this path month, I decided to test my fanboy tendencies with my current camera. I think the announcement of the 1DXmkiii inspired my test. I have been shooting almost exclusively with the 7Dmkii. This has been a very interesting experiment for me. This reinforced my opinion that there is no comparison. I had forgotten about having to be aware of buffer limits. I would suggesting renting a 1DXmkii for, at least a few days and try it out. You will have to overcome some levels of muscle memories I think it will take more than one day. Then you would have a stronger base on which to structure your decision.
Given all that, I am absolutely going to follow the coming announcements of the 1DXMKIIl. I am not going to get their earliest release. Maybe you remember, I bought a 1Diii as an early release. The focus capability on that one was not it’s outstanding feature. If the 1DXmkiii lives up to Canon’s hype, it should be a monster. Also, it may be the last and best DSLR ever produced. And, I think it would last me long enough.
I appreciate you jumping in on this, Joe.
At this point at least my thoughts are very close to yours. Even though I’ve never shot the 1DX Mark II I hear from reliable sources it was a significant improvement in AF tracking over the 7DII. But the 1DX Mark II has been out for a while and the Mark III is supposed to be hugely advanced over the Mark II in almost all areas so my plan at the moment is to wait until I hear what the final specs will be on the Mark III. If the image file size is at least approaching 30 MP I’ll probably purchase the Mark III.
Despite the expense… 🙂 There are no perfect solutions. Believe me, I’ve checked and I continue to.
And for my purposes and my situation I couldn’t agree more with what you said here: “Also, it may be the last and best DSLR ever produced. And, I think it would last me long enough.”
Ron, There will be a Canon Rep at Pictureline Friday and Saturday. Maybe you can ask them for advise. Perhaps they will be going to Pixels too?
Julie, my camera dealer (a friend of mine) will be talking to that Canon rep today. He’s going to ask the rep my two primary questions and then get back to me:
1. What will the image file size be on the Canon 1DX Mark III when it comes out?
2. When will that camera be available?
Canon is pretty tight lipped about such things but it can’t hurt to ask.
“Hey old man, you have boxed yourself into a corner. You have moved on past windows 95 right?”
Hey smart ass, you had a mother who taught you some manners, right?
Ok, with that behind us at this point at least I have every intention of staying native with my equipment.
Good letter! It’ll be interesting to see how Canon responds!
Thanks, Shelley. I doubt I’ll hear back from them but I guess it could happen.
I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about (not being a photography person), but you GO, Ron!!! 😀
Hopefully, you’ll get some satisfactory answers from Canon and some good suggestions from people in the know (which it looks like you have). Good luck! 🙂
Thanks, Marty. The advice provided by my readers today is invaluable and I’m very grateful.
I’m not sure that you are right in file size being 20MP. You are referring to the sensor size/density in Megapixels. Output files are in MB – Megabytes, which can vary according to photo complexity. A Hawk soaring in a blue sky will be smaller than a Song Sparrow in think brush.
I’m similarly looking to replace my Canon 7dmk2/sigma 150-600 with Sony. They make some crop sensor cameras a6400 and a6600 that seem good for birding, if small. They also make adapters to shoot Canon glass on Sony bodies. I’ll be renting some Sony gear to take to Bosque Del Apache next month.
I think you’re right, Steve. I knew I’d screw something up… 🙂
> They also make adapters to shoot Canon glass on Sony bodies. I’ll be renting some Sony gear to take to Bosque Del Apache next month.
sadly the testing I’ve read for big glass 200/300/400/500/600/800/1200) is that the metabones adapter (and the other options) just dont keep up (even on the latest bodies) for portrait telephoto and under, you’ve got a good chance of success though.
looks like I ignored the A7R IV when it came out – reviews are looking absolutely solid for wildlife work.
https://fstoppers.com/animal/why-i-bought-sony-a7r-iv-wildlife-photography-405603
consider it a 26Mp aps-c body that also shoots full frame. 😉
Almost $6k once you add a 200-600 for a starting point and a helping of batteries, but it sure looks tempting.
I’ll check it out, David. Thanks for the link.
about $380 to rent a combo for a week from lensrentals – they charge $27 for an extra battery for the week, so I’d just buy a wasabi fw100 from amazon in that case…. but certainly a possible route to try out some combinations before you’re ready to make a change.
Hi Ron, thanks for your post which articulates a lot of frustrations I have. I’m in a similar situation, though a lot less accomplished than you. I have a trusty 7d ii but find it is showing its age, especially when compared to the Sonys. I love my 100-400 though, and frankly can’t afford to switch, although the more time that goes by for Canon to release something compelling, the more money I can save to make a big switch of brands possible.
I’m pinning my hopes on the mirrorless Canon R ii which is coming early 2020 according to rumours (‘canonrumours.com’ website is pretty good) but it has to have at least 10FPS to be viable (the R has a lowly 5FPS), otherwise the reduction in size I’m keen on won’t be worth it. I know you don’t want an adapter but from what I’ve read (from Ken Rockwell among others) they work really well on the new RF mount with EF lenses.
The 90D was a huge disappointment IMO so, as you mention, that only leaves the 1DX for Canon DSLRs.
I’m thinking if neither the R ii or 1DX are good enough to replace a 5-6 years old 7D ii then it maybe time to break my bank to leave Canon.
Marcus, I may go down to my dealer again tomorrow and get both the Sony and the 1DX Mark II in my hands to get a better feel for them after digesting all the feedback from readers in today’s post. It’s probably going to be a tough decision.
I don’t know if renting is an option for you but could be worth a try at lensrentals.com for example.
I shot Canon for 25 years. Switched to LUMIX 3 years ago and have never looked back. Canon’s mirrorless technology is to little to late. Love my LUMIX.
Thanks for the feedback, Michael.
They need to give you equipment to test for them. Have you ever thought about approaching them (being a generic all them) about that?
Nope, I’ve never considered it Arwen. Despite my public blog I’m a pretty low key kinda guy who tends to stay in the background.
I’ve said it before. Sony A9. Shoots silent, 24 fps, Zeiss glass, ISO up to 26000, nothing better on planet.
Martha, I don’t doubt what you’ve said but switching isn’t easy, convenient or cheap. In fact it’s a huge pain in the ass. Lots to think about.
You need to sell all the Cannon stuff and buy either the Sony a7IV( allows great cropping) OR the a9, or a9ii and the 200 to 600 lens. I have the a9ii -70 200, 100 to 400 , and the new 200-600. I love my equipment. Sony is the leader in innovation
Easier (and cheaper) said than done, Ed.
I hope you don’t have to go through such a change. That’s an unpleasant prospect, but I understand if it becomes necessary.. A friend suggested to me that I look into Sony. They have a camera that shoots 10 frames per second and is full frame at 61 mp. I think he was referring to the a7R IV which is over $3,000. I don’t know anything about it because I wasn’t ready to explore this option (vision problems are limiting my abilities to do photography as much as I once did.) My brother has a far less expensive Sony that he is very happy with but he does not do nature photography. To change would be a major hassle and a huge investment. Since I didn’t explore this option I don’t know what lenses are compatible with this camera (my equipment is Nikon) and I don’t know it detailed specs.. If you seriously need to change brands, it might be worth investigating this further to see if it is even worth considering. The brief specs I saw look good but it would certainly need a closer evaluation to know if it really fits your needs. Let us know how your searches turn out. Good luck.
Dan, as you imply this prospect isn’t any fun to deal with – not for anyone who has to endure it. Thank you for the good wishes and I have similar wishes for your vision issues.
ron,
saw your plea this morning – a few quick comments (as a mirrorless shooter myself – mirrorless let me get back the feeling of the classic bodies, and my vintage lenses, that I liked. I love my sony bodies behind my old nikkor 600/5.6 and 300/5.6 glass..)
I’m not super familiar with the current canon body lineup (I took a few years off from my GAS…) – but don’t fear the canon mirrorless to EF adapters. just think of them as a removable nose on the body that allows you to -also- use another lens. they’re just there to pass the electronics and provide the right focal plane distance. they’re simple, and well engineered. if you never take it off the body and just swap the lenses onto it, you’ll forget it’s there. if all you have are ef lenses and dont want to deal with the risk of removal, I’d bet securing it permanently wouldn’t be hard.
that said – my gut says that canon’s mirrorless body range is probably 1-2 generations away from really being ready. but that’s perhaps based on the reviews I saw of their first attempts – maybe they’ve made leaps and bounds….
you’re definitely right that the entire market right now is full-frame heavy – there are very limited to no pro crop bodies. that’s pretty annoying to say the least. it’ll take a while before everything shakes back out to sanity. I do somewhat worry that the crop body market will be left with only the low/mid level “lightweight” and “compact” bodies focused on low priced light weight crop lenses. (certainly canon’s history of apsc lens quality leaves a lot to be desired). the in-camera-crop on the high megapixel bodies are a nice option, but those are still the outliers, and they also usually aren’t sports oriented (!!!??).
I certainly understand the worry and concern around adding adapters – but as long as you limit your needs (I’ve got lenses in just about every mount under the sun…) to one mount pair, it’s significantly less of an issue.
from a sony perspective – I’d suggest a trial (rented or b&h satisfaction return…) of an a6500 and a sony 200-600. the a6500 gets you 11fps and a shooting buffer to die for. (none of the newer line of apsc bodies come close, buffer wise). maybe eventually sell some of the canon glass and the new 600/4 is lighter than your 500/4s… 😉
At least with sony, now that the 100-400 200-600 and 600 are out, you -can- go fully native. I just wish they’d build normal-hand-sized aps-c bodies… and have a cheaper 100-400 option. 🙂
That’s a lot of very useful information, David. Thanks for providing it.
I still worry about all those connections between lens and camera if I’m using an adapter in addition to tc. I even have some trouble with the tc without the adapter.
Not sure if you’ve looked into the 1dx mark iii but it looks like it’s going an amazing camerea. I’m in the same boat
as you with my 7d mark ii its getting long in the tooth. https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/canon-eos-1d-x-mark-iii-announced-hybrid-dslr-has-deep-learning-af-with-28x-more-resolution-than-1d-x-mark-ii
Bryan, there’s been a lot of discussion here about the IDX Mark III, both in my post and in the comments.
Ron,
If your unhapiness with Canon persists and you begin to consider changing systems, this is something to think about. During the 2 weeks I spent on the Texas Gulf coast last month, I never took the Nikon D500 and the Nikon 500 PF w/ fresnel element out of the camera bag. I’m happy with the Olympus. So, I am going to sell my Nikon gear next year. I will take the same type of loss from original purchase price as you would selling your Canon gear and will end up selling my gear for about the same price you will get for selling yours. If you sold yours and bought mine you could change systems without incurring a huge financial loss.
From reading the comments that have already been made, the new 1DX Mark III seems like the easiest switch if the actual specs are what you need. But if you begin to consider switching to Nikon, keep my situation in mind. Mia can tell you all about the advantages and disadvantages of the gear I have.
Dave
“the new 1DX Mark III seems like the easiest switch if the actual specs are what you need”
Those are exactly my own thoughts at the moment, Dave. If I can live with the pixel count when it’s announced that’s very possibly what I’ll do, despite the expense. At least I can keep my lenses that I love so much.
Hi Ron. These are “interesting” times indeed for the wildlife/bird photographer with regards to new technology. I have a hole burning in my pocket to spend on gear but can’t decide which direction to go as well, although my current Nikon gear still does the job. A good friend of mine has posted his impressions of the Canon 90D which he recently purchased to replace his aging Canon crop body camera. I was out shooting with him a couple of times recently and his thoughts are posted at Naturescapes in the Equipment forum under the recent thread announcing the 90D. His feeling about the camera are decidedly mixed, not what he was hoping for. He goes by his first name “John” in the thread if you have some time to check it out. John is an accomplished nature photographer and speaks the truth. I hope this helps you. Bird photography is a big part of your life Ron, get what makes you happy!
“Interesting” is one way to put it…
I’ve already decided I won’t be going the 90D route. I’m just too hard on my equipment.
Good to hear from you again, Gary. You and I go back a ways.
Nothing useful to add, but have to say I am sorry – and good luck.
I appreciate that, EC. Thank you.
Hi Ron, check out my video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UneR7GCEU2Q&feature=youtu.be
I switched to Nikon and had never looked back. The AF tracking is much more accurate than Canon 1DX, and 1DX Mark II from the 10 years I’ve been using Canon. With the battery pack grip, you can get 9 frames per second, which is still a bit slower than what you wanted, but trust me, you will love the 45 mega pixels. I heard the Sony A9 Mark II has better AF but its only 24 mega pixel. For BIF we crop a lot and we need all the pixels.
Thanks for the link and for the info, Tin. I’ve got more research to do, that’s for sure.
I went to a talk about bird photography a while ago. The presenter said that, given modern camera technology, what’s in front of the camera is less important than who’s behind the it. Sounds a bit trite, especially to all experienced and excellent photographers like yourself, but we all get camera (or computer or whatever technology) envy when we see all the new advancements. I would question whether your Feathered Photography community could get any more enjoyment than we already do, because, as many have said before, it is not only your photography that is so compelling.
“what’s in front of the camera is less important than who’s behind it.”
That has always been true and it always will be, Lyle. It isn’t even a horse race.
But that argument can only be taken so far, otherwise I could take excellent closeup photos of birds in flight with an old-time Brownie or even an original Polaroid.
Ah! The technical aspect of it all. I switched to Canon, after shooting Nikon for twenty years, back in the 90’s because Canon had a far superior electronic, not mechanical, auto focus. I’m not likely to switch again. You have to realize that Canon and Sony are vertically integrated companies that use technologies borrowed from all the other aspects of their multi-faceted biz and will push the envelope of advancement together. There isn’t much they don’t make themselves. Sony has, if my memory serves me correctly, always made Nikons sensors so it wasn’t a stretch for them to enter into the camera market slowly and deliberately. I expect that Sony’s entry will spark advances we haven’t seen in the industry since digital was introduced. If you wait 6 months, there will be something else to chase. Will it make you a better photographer? I think not! Will it increase your love of bird photography? You’ll have to decide.
In the end, you’ll have a system that fits your needs and some of your wishes, continues to satisfy your standards and lets you capture images that, after you fiddle with it in post to make it a “Dudley”, Slaps the rest of us in the eye on a daily basis. It’s your vision, not the cameras. I’m pretty sure Canon won’t be left in the dust any time soon, but if you need to switch, so be it. I’ll still be a fan.
“If you wait 6 months, there will be something else to chase”
Isn’t that the truth!
You make some good points, Neil. But I’m thinking that vastly improved AF will make a real difference for me, especially with flight shots.
I’ll be watching with interest. But at 69 I’m not likely to change, either.
Geez, you’re still a youngster at 69… 🙂
I just purchased the Nikon D850 and have a bit to learn to use properly. My previous camera was a Nikon D3400 with Tamron 100-600mm lens. The D850 is a 46mp camera and cropping is not a problem. I am using with a Nikkor 200-500mm lens and a 70-300mm lens. Pictures are astoundingly sharp. You can use the D850 with a 1.4 teleconverter, just make sure it’s for a FX format. I can use the lens from my Nikon D3400, which is DX format, but in cropped mode. Doesn’t bother me at all. “Automatic” on D850 is not as “automatic” as the D3400 and therefore I have to learn how to change some settings for better motion shots.
Barbara, I’ve heard good things about that camera.
Hi Ron, sorry for the miss read earlier this AM. I was on my first cup of coffee so not all together. You are too good a wildlife photographer and too dedicated to your love of it to skimp. Buy what you want and don’t look back. For me, I made the switch from Canon (1dx, 5Div, and 7DII) because the a9 ran circles around those bodies as far as focusing capabilities. So flight photography became much more rewarding. Perched birds was not nearly the issue for making the change. Better to have a sharp image than can be cropped than to have something out of focus. Fortunately for me, I have the financial resources to invest in the glass, but it has been painful, not only in my wallet, but due to some of the comments I have received from my wonderful wife (actually she was a promoter). So, right now, I am not looking back with any reservations. It is probably wise to wait until the release of the 1DXIII. At least you would be able to use your existing 500, but you probably will be looking at relying on a 2x converter and you will have to see how that works out. I will have say that the a9 is absolutely fully functional with a 2X converter and IQ is more than acceptable. I did not experience that with my Canon gear. I will also say that the image quality of the a7RIII (and I am sure IV) is absolutely amazing and with the large sensors you can crop to your hearts desire and still have excellent images. Perhaps a full arsenal would include both bodies. One of your readers commented about Artie and his new love for Sony. With all due respect to Artie, he is a relatively late comer to Sony and IMO not an expert. If you really want some insight into Sony, I have a contact for you that would be source of information if you care to reach out. This photographer was a Canon “seeker of light” or whatever they called them, and an absolutely top notch flight photographer. He dropped his Canon contract when the a9 came out. If you would like contact information I can provide such but don’t think it is appropriate to include on your blog. And to top it off, this person is a class act.
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in your quest. It is a tough position to be in, but I think you are making the right decision to at minimum investigate your options.
Also, have fun in the process!
Frank, I’m pretty sure I’ll wait at least until I know what the pixel count is on the IDX Mark III.
I bought a 2x converter years ago but sold it soon after because I wasn’t happy with the noticeable loss of image quality.
“Have fun in the process” – Ha, fat chance of that. I’d rather have several simultaneous root canals…
Hi Ron, have you looked at the Canon 5D mark iv? It is full frame, 30 megapixels, 60 points of focus and is only $2,000!
Brett. I have. But only 7 frames/sec is a deal killer for me.
You’re far too skilled for someone in my position to challenge you. That being said 🙂 I DO love my 5D MK IV for birds even with the slower frame rate. Full frame goodness man, it’s tough to beat. 😉
Or the Canon 5DS R at 50.6 MP! Now, that’s a lot of pixels! 🙂
Too many if you ask me…
Ron, If the 5D4’s frame rate is too slow, and the 5Ds has too many pixels (and low frame rate)
AND
your 7D2’s are nearing the end of their lives (high shutter count);
Why NOT
just buy another pair 7D2s (being discounted) and rethink the problem in 3-4 years when we will be at the other side of the mirrorless transition.
Mitch, here’s the easy (and frank) answer to your question.
I prefer not to wait that long because I’d lose those “3-4 years” of shooting with the improved AF capabilities. At age 72 that may be a big chunk of the practical shooting time I have left.
But if that’s my best choice I may just continue shooting with my 7D II’s as you suggest. That’s why I’m investigating…
Noooooo!
April, that was also my reaction when I saw that Canon was discontinuing the 7D line some weeks ago.
Keep these tech updates coming, Ron. I sold my Canon DSLR’s in anticipation of switching to Sony, then chickened out. I am waiting for new developments, and perhaps reduced prices, while still shooting with my little Canon SX50HS. No easy answers yet.
Ha, I’m not sure there’ll EVER be an easy answer…
Ron,
When I moved to WA I discovered I had issues using my 7DMII (paired with my 500mm version II and 1.4x II) due to low light. It really reduced the number of acceptable pictures I was getting. I even wrote you and asked your advice on the subject. I ended up purchasing the Canon 1Dx Mark II and haven’t had any regrets. The quality of the pictures is far above what I was getting with the 7D, the improved performance in low light and ability to use higher ISOs is amazing not to mention the advantages of the extra burst rate. I haven’t had any issues with cropping and being able to get an acceptable image size. I’ve found that I can tighten up framing by leaving the 1.4x on even for flight shots. I’ve also discovered the 1Dx works great with the 2.0x teleconverter and I use that often for getting in closer on still shots. This camera has actually increased my options for framing despite the pixel count as well as increasing the keepers I can get in lower light and the extra frames during bursts. My 7DMII now is my backup camera paired with Tamron’s 150-600. I still love the camera but now use it rarely.
I agree with David Harkins comments above and would also recommend renting one to test out. I think you may be pleasantly surprised.
That’s all helpful info, Scott.
I was really hesitant to make this post but all this valuable feedback from you and others makes me glad I did!
Like you, I am older and heavily invested in Canon gear and am not excited about having to move to mirrorless or another brand. I hadn’t heard that there won’t be a 7DM3; this is very disappointing, as I love my 7D Mark 2 paired with a Canon 100-400 Version 2 with 1.4 teleconverter, which works great as a walk-around/hand-held combo for birds, butterflies, dragonflies, and flowers. I was waiting/hoping for a 7DM3, but now (based on your info) I’m debating whether to buy another 7DM2 or get the 30MP full-frame Canon 5D Mark IV. Arthur Morris (Birds As Art blog) feels the mirrorless 24 MP Sony A9 II currently has the best auto focusing system for birds in flight. I’m also seeing great reviews on the full-frame 45.7 MP Nikon D850 paired with the new Nikon 500 PF w/ fresnel element; see e.g., http://arihazeghiphotography.com/blog/nikkor-af-s-500mm-f-5-6-pf-vr-review/ Please keep us informed regarding your purchasing plans. Thank you for all your efforts in publishing a wonderful blog.
Ron, your first sentence says it all in a nutshell.
I’m far from a fan of “Love, Artie” Morris but even he can get things right once in a while…
I’ll let my readers know how all this turns out, eventually.
Is this for personal reasons, professional , technical, or something else?
Steve, I assume you’re referring to my opinion of Art Morris.
It’s based on personal, professional and ethical reasons. Below is a link to just one example. Scroll down to the 10th photo of “Bald Eagle Chicks In Nest”. That photo was obviously taken with his camera stuck right in the face of those very young eagle chicks in the nest (it was taken at only 55mm) and he had an entire group of photo clients with him who were doing the same thing. It’s both illegal and unethical to get anywhere near that close to eagle nests and chicks anywhere but to double down on his lack of ethics that photo was taken in a National Park!
That’s typical of his ethics and he has a personal reputation to match. I’ve seen examples of it.
https://www.birdsasart.com/bn291.htm
Don’t expect this link to work for long. When I’ve posted links to other sites that had the same photo Morris has deleted them and he may do it again. I have screen shots as insurance.
The lens determines the body, and you will lose a lot of benefit with your f/4 if you have to use an adapter AND a TC (ouch!). Can’t believe Canon’s next flagship of full-frame does not offer a higher megapixel, instead favoring mirrorless. I also owned Sony but my problem with that brand is their shutter mechanism has a high failure rate once you hit past 100k of actuations (exactly what happened to me on the 11th month of ownership), so i said never again! Switching camera bodies/systems means you will likely have to “tune” your muscle memory for your style to adjust to the new system. I’ve decided to stick with Nikon due to the introduction of the lightweight PF lenses which my lumbar spine will be forever grateful, specially since i’m getting older each day. Good luck!
“Switching camera bodies/systems means you will likely have to “tune” your muscle memory for your style to adjust to the new system”
Elmer, you’ve mentioned something here that others have left out but I’m very cognizant of. I’m such a creature of habit that would be a difficult transition for me.
Ron – this is really interesting. I am just an amateur hobbyist bird photographer with a $500 camera who knows very little about the high tech of photography. I just love photographing birds and very much enjoy following your successes via this site. It will be very interesting and educational for me to read and learn from what your very knowledgeable followers respond with.
I’m learning from the responses too, Everett. I’m very grateful for all the valuable feedback.
Ron: I see the camera industry in the same kind of turning point as we were 20 years or so ago when it was clear that digital technology was advancing and that film photography was going to be a thing of the past (for most). Now the turning point is DSLR’s to Mirrorless. Switching camera brands is only going to create the same dilemma for you in the near future. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so….. Canon and Nikon are both going to stop manufacturing all DSLR’s in the future. How far out that future is, I don’t know, but the economics of trying to keep DSLR’s alive with their native lenses (Canon EF and Nikon F mounts) as well as the new mount formats for both systems is simply not a viable economic proposition. The camera industry has been in a downward spiral in terms of sales for quite a while. 2019 was certainly no exception. So…. What to do. At the moment I don’t think either Canon or Nikon has a mirrorless option in full or crop sensor that is worth a damn for birds in flight or any other action photography. Canon was at the Festival of the Cranes at Bosque Del Apache with loaner lenses and cameras. The EOS R had a recent firmware update that was meant to address the focus tracking ability. I guess it was better from those I talked to (I didn’t use it), but that camera is a blazing 3 FPS. What a joke.
The Nikon D500 would fill your specs. It’s a bit newer than the 7D II and highly regarded, but to switch would be expensive and only prolong the exact same problem.
About 90% of my shooting today is with Olympus. I have both the EM1-II and the EM1-X. All the flight stuff you’ve seen from me in the past two years has been on the Olympus system. That’s a micro 4/3 system with a 2x crop factor. 20mp. I shoot with my Olympus 300mm f/4 (600mm full frame equivalent) and a 1.4x converter for most action and long distance stuff. I really enjoy it. It is a fun system to use, produces great results and is a lot lighter and smaller than anything else. Not perfect, but I haven’t found a perfect system yet. If you read the internet or watch YouTube you’ll find the micro 4/3 haters who will tell you the sensor is too small and is just not capable of lower light. Well….. They are just wrong and I have thousands of images to prove it. It is a mirrorless system and took some time to get used to but now that I am used to it, I really like it. I still have my full Canon system (7D II, 5D IV, 500mm f/4, etc). I just don’t pick it up to shoot after using the Olympus and enjoying the flexibility it provides.
So…. long drawn out answer that doesn’t answer your problem. Just some thoughts and ramblings.
And your “thoughts and ramblings” are greatly appreciated, Keith – especially because I’ve valued your skills and knowledge for so long (throw in your ethics too).
From what I’ve read you’re absolutely right about where the camera industry is going. The question for me, at 72 years old and on a retirement income, is how long will the transition take and at what point is switching not worth it.
No easy answers, I know…
Another thought…… I’d still look at a 1DX II. I think you’d find the AF faster. Yes, the file size isn’t any larger than your 7D II, but I think you’d find it supports your needs. Easy way to find out…. Go too Lensrentals.com and rent one for a week. Try it and see what the results look like. If the 1DX II fits the need a new one is still available and is a beast. It would last for years. The 1DX III is coming, but still a bit of a mystery as to real details. Maybe worth waiting for over the 1DX II, but for your needs, maybe not.
Asking for camera recommendations opens the door for endless opinions and debates, similar to religion or politics, so I generally choose to remain silent and worry only about myself and what great meets my specific needs. That being said, I’ve been shooting Canon my entire life and have close to $50K in bodies and lenses. Technology changes almost as fast as new gear is released and for those who “chase” the latest and greatest at any moment, it’s a losing battle of great expense. Especially when they go to another brand. My wildlife body has always been the 1DX, usually combined with the 600mm or the 200-400mm Canon lenses, with or without the teleconverter and as soon as the Mark III comes out, you can be sure I’ll have one in my bag. Canon EOS-1D X Mark III Rumored Specs are 28MP, 30fps, Dual DIGIC 9, IBIS. The 1DX is an incredible workhorse and I shoot at extremely high ISO levels on a regular basis, even pushing shots to 12,800 and 25,600 with very acceptable results. I’m really looking forward to getting my hands on the Mark III. I’ve used the 7D many times and it never came close to performing at the level of the 1DX. Like you, I have no interest in mirrorless at this time for wildlife or action photography. If they ever get the performance worked out, I would consider a mirrorless and wouldn’t hesitate the need for an adapter, but at this time, a DSLR is still my choice for wildlife and the 1DX MIII will continue to be my first choice. Good luck with your swim through the dark, murky waters of camera technology.
“as soon as the Mark III comes out, you can be sure I’ll have one in my bag”
Don’t hold your breath, Everet. Canon says there won’t be one.
The rumors I’ve seen about pixel count in the 1DX Mark III have all been about 20 MP. 28 MP is getting in the range that might tempt me…
I was referring to the upcoming 1DX Mark III. I have no interest in a 7D. As stated the latest rumers for the new 1DX are 28MP, but rumors are just that. We will have to wait and see the final specs when it comes out. I’d be happy if it was around 24MP.
Thanks for the clarification, Everet. I misinterpreted what you meant.
Well I am of no help to you! Being a Canon fan myself, I would find it very difficult to switch ‘brands’ at this stage of the game even though I have ‘NO WHERE’ near the investment in gear you do. I certainly hope you find an answer to your dilemma that doesn’t involve switching. Perhaps someone at Canon will listen to your request…one would think this is something ‘they’ would have thought of and considered on their own! Let’s hope you put a ‘bug in their ear’…I’m sure it would be of great help to many others!
“Let’s hope you put a ‘bug in their ear”
Kathy, that was my purpose for writing them but I’m afraid it may be too late in the development of the camera to make any difference even if they wanted to. Who knows…
I own both the 1Dx2 and the 7D2. Pretty much the only reason I ever carry the 7D2 is for it’s smaller physical size inside a shallower backpack. And with it’s cropped sensor, I can pair it with smaller, lighter lenses.
But otherwise the 1Dx2 beats it hands down in every respect. Particularly in auto-focus and high ISO performance. It is a much better sensor. It’s not always about the number of pixels but the accuracy or “quality” of those pixels. I can crop a 1Dx2 RAW file all the way down to 2,048 pixels on the longest side and the exported JPG is still suitable for web use and excellent prints up to 8×10. I think if you ever tried the 1Dx2/3 you would be astounded by how much better it performs than the 7D2. If in doubt, you could just rent a 1Dx2 for a few days. I’m actually excited about the prospect of seeing the photography you could produce from a 1Dx2/3.
David, I spent quite a bit of time a week ago with the IDX II in my hands (I almost brought it home for a week and still might…) and liked what I saw considering it’s full frame, massive and heavy. I shoot birds almost exclusively so I’d really prefer cropped frame but that IDX II tempted me.
But they’re still very expensive and with the IDX III coming out in a couple of months and having even better AF capabilities I’m going to wait to see what the pixel count is on the new version of that camera.
But only 20 MP still makes me nervous…
It may take more time to appreciate it. When I first got my 1Dx2, I didn’t shoot it anywhere remotely close to its potential. Then I had a conversation with a friend who had been shooting the 1Dx cameras a long time. He used a car analogy. If you go from a Ford to a Ferrari, it’s not going to make much of a difference unless you DRIVE it differently. The problem was I wasn’t shooting any differently, but expecting different results. Basically, he said I was driving a Ferrari (1Dx2) like it was a Ford (my previous camera). So that conversation was very helpful.
I started trying to break out of my old habits to get more of the potential out of the camera. And this was especially true in the area of ISO. What I found out was my 1Dx2 could shoot an ISO of 400 to 800 and still get better results than my previous camera had at 100. So now I almost never let the ISO fall below 400 even in very good lighting conditions. Why? Because I feel like I’m leaving the untapped potential of shutter speed and/or depth of field on the table.
There’s a definite mind shift that has to take place in order to get the most from the camera. I’m sure I still don’t shoot it to nearly it’s full potential, but I’ve definitely gotten closer. It’s a journey. Better equipment removes some of the built-in limitations. That frees the photographer to pursue greater artistry. Which I guess is both a blessing and a curse because I often don’t feel like my skills live up to the potential of the equipment. But I do enjoy it so!
Ron- I also was a diehard Canon shooter for 20 years. Had the MKIII and MKIV series pro cameras and the 7DII among others. Switched to Sony 2 years ago and never looked back. You would love the A9 with 500 focus points and 20 frames per second. If you miss a bird in flight it is your fault not the camera. It is that good. I belong to Mile High Wildlife Photo club in Denver and there has to be 10 or 12 people that switched from Canon and Nikon in the last year. Go out and try the Sony a9 and you will be amazed like we all are. DSLR is a thing of the past believe me. You are a good shooter and this camera will take you to a new level. Sell your Canon camera gear as the prices are dropping rapidly. Just sold my canon 500mm for $3000. Sony lenses are really good. PM me if you need more info.
Bob, I actually had a Sony A9 in my hands about a week ago. And yes, I’ve heard mostly good things about it.
But the switch would be very expensive given my investment in Canon lenses which I love (my 500 f/4 is the new version). In the end I may have no choice but I want to cover all my bases first. One thing I want to wait for is to see what the pixel count in the new IDX Mark III actually is. The AF in that camera is AI based and supposed to be incredible.
Hi Ron, I’m also an owner of two 7DMKII’s and have the same dilemma. I recently purchased a mirrorless Sony A9II with a 200-600 v2 lens. I’m also considering a Canon-to-Sony adapter for my other lenses. My wife is my Guinea pig to see what a shift to a high-speed Sony might be like.
I’m also curious about the Canon 90D, which is getting pretty good reviews, is relatively inexpensive, takes my Canon lenses, and is not mirrorless. But, it’s unclear to me how the quality, durability, and weather resistance of the 90D might compare with my lovely 7DII’s.
I’m sharing your pain!
Rick
Rick, It’s a pain I wish we didn’t have to share.
Like you one of my big concerns with the new 90D is build quality. But at that price I guess I could buy two or three of them… 🙂
Hi Ron,
I’m very glad you’re speaking up, and in such detail! And especially glad that you wrote in such passionate detail to Canon itself. Of course you are outraged! And it does seem like the height of stupidity for the company to cold shoulder what must be a central component of its most dedicated customers. I think of how Elliot Porter first started as a bird photographer, too. Best wishes in finding a camera worthy of your needs, and please report about that one in great detail, too!
Alison, I’d like to hear back from Canon if for no other reason than to know they’ve actually read my letter. Wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t but I’d be even more disappointed in them if that’s the case.
Call me clueless – I’m no “gearhead” either let alone do photography on the level you do! I agree that all the mechanical and electrical connections involved in going to a mirrorless is just asking for trouble. I’m guessing the lens selection for a mirrorless is nowhere close to what you have now not to mention the lens weight issue on what’s probably a smaller/lighter camera. Hopefully some can help steer you in a good direction!
Judy, I already have enough trouble keeping electrical connections working well while using the tc. Adding more electrical connections with an adapter just isn’t an option for me.
Are new Canon 7D II’s still available? If so, why not buy one of those? Even though they may soon be out of date, so what.
Consider a switch to a Nikon D500. It would seemingly meet your criteria, but you would have to invest in new lenses also.
Jim, I already have 2 7D II’s. Why would I want another one with the same old technologies?
Switching to Nikon or some other brand may be my only choice but my investment in Canon Lenses (which I adore) is huge so the switch would be very expensive, not to mention cumbersome and hugely inconvenient.
Hey Ron, I know it’s old technology, but IF the new technology is not an improvement, and IF you’re largely satisfied with the 7DII, why not stick with it. It’s always a compromise between cost and all the various performance variables, and the old camera may remain the best compromise. Especially with the camera aging and getting cheaper. Think how many brand new 7DIIs you could stockpile for the price (not to mention hassle) of switching platforms. While the new tech is inevitably tempting, you have clearly had tremendous success with what you have.
Just a thought
Brian, If the recent technology isn’t a significant improvement that’s what I’d probably do, at least for the short run. It wouldn’t make sense to “upgrade” for no reason.
Just curious Ron, why “not mirrorless”?
Frank, I explained why not twice in my post. Here’s one of them:
“Instead they’re focusing on their new mirrorless cameras which I refuse to consider at this point because they would require me to use an adapter, in addition to my trusty 1.4 teleconverter, between my camera and 500mm lens. That’s just too many mechanical and electrical connections for me to feel comfortable with.”